Elizabeth Franklin (![[info]](http://p-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} dear_lizzy) wrote,@ 2006-04-04 20:01:00 |
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Abandoned and Responses to Evil Tease
Dear Lizzy,
Last year, I watched two people who I thought cared for me latch onto each other with forces akin to an Asimov novel. They did this for mutual support as they each underwent a great deal of stress preparing for important events in their lives. I was involved in both events in some minor way, but in the process, I felt completely removed from either social circle. It also didn't help that work has kept me isolated with long and late hours.
Now, their activities have centered around each other, and I no longer feel as though I know them. I have my own, very stressful event fast approaching at the end of the summer, and I am in a bind. I feel that they find me unnecessary and excluded me from even the most mundane activity. For example: they mentioned at a large gathering the interest to get ice cream. I asked if I could go with them and I was told "Oh, this is something we do," as though I was no longer a member of the popular clique.
Should I continue to be friends, or should I no longer seek their advice and company?
-Abandoned
Dear Abandoned,
It was slightly unclear - you said that the suggestion of an ice cream trip was made at a large gathering, but the "we" might have been just the two who have latched onto each other. If it was the latter - sorry, but there are some things that become rituals between couples or small groups, and it's something that you should accept. If it was a general invitation to everyone but you, that was extremely rude of them. They're not worth being friends with if they deliberately excluded just you. Lose them and look around for interesting people.
It's possible that you've simply grown apart and that they don't feel close to you anymore. It's also possible that they've got their heads stuck so far up their own asses that they don't think about anyone but themselves. You won't know until you've talked to them in a way that is:
- One-on-one
- Non-accusatory
- Calm
Invite each one - separately - to some activity - a walk, ice cream, something where either one of you can break off the talk whenever you want and leave independently of each other. Talk to the one with whom you are most interested in maintaining a friendship first.
Make sure that both of you are fed and well-rested beforehand. Tell them how you feel in "I" terms. Do NOT say "You did X to me", say, "I felt hurt when you said I wasn't welcome to get ice cream with you. I've been feeling unwelcome, and that makes me uncomfortable. I would prefer to know if I am imposing myself on you. I have really enjoyed your company in the past, but I don't want to spend my time feeling like an outsider." See what each of your friends has to say. Do your best not to use guilt as a weapon - or at all. It is self-defeating.
The text above is somewhat inflammatory; it will only work if you say it calmly. Alternately, figure out your own words. However, remember: they have a right to do whatever they want to with their lives, just as you have a right to live your life as you see fit. If they're treating you like shit, go find better friends. Be a good friend - and I mean a friend, not a door mat - and you will find good friends. Realize too that you may be emotionally "leaning" on them more heavily than you realize. I used to do this as a manner of habit, and didn't realize it until years later.
Whatever happens, get involved in more activities that interest you, and be interested in the people you meet through those activities. It seems like you might see these two people as two of your few social outlets. Expand your base. It will make you happier, and it will put less pressure on those two particular people to be there for you. There are really good people all around you, waiting to be interested in you - if you're interested in them. Make sure to listen to what other people have to say - encourage them to talk rather than doing all the talking yourself, and you'll be amazed at the life that people will share with you.
Two weeks ago, I had a letter from Evil Tease, asking about the propriety of flirting with two guys at once, when she didn't know whether she was actually interested in either. I asked the men for feedback. Below are the responses.
Man 1:
Flirting with two people, or even going out on dates with different people wouldn't bother me. You have to be able to meet people, find out if they are compatible with you. Flirting is an Olympic Sport to some, and can be perfectly harmless. Flirting is about getting to know someone, and being unsure of your intentions. However, crossing personal boundary space (ie... kissing both) might be a bit unfair. But, if you have to know who the better kisser is, well, scientific discovery is hard work... However, if your to the point of horizontal mamba, being honest with both that your "seeing others" would be appreciated. That way, they can make an informed choice (in my case, probably no - I tend to date one person at a time, and look for that in the people I date - but that's my personal choice). Remember, relationships are a two way street.
Man 2:
There you go, breaking guy's hearts, Tease!
But, yes, a key to keeping from hurting a member of the other sex is to convey exactly what your feelings are, what your wants are, and what you are looking for. Is it just to be social and have a good time? Is it to size up the peacocks at this particular lek? Is it to learn more about a potential partner? Is the goal a private assignation — if the partner is suitable?
Communicate, communicate, communicate. There are some cues that should be generally understandable: If you came to a gathering alone (without a partner), you should let folks know that, and they should know that you are a "free agent." You can state that you would like to meet everyone during the gathering. In such a case, you are quite justified in deciding amongst potential partners for the evening. Everyone should understand that you are, effectively, setting up a win/lose (or lose/lose) competition for a potential partner. Some may choose to throw their hat in the ring, some may not, but the subtleties of human sexual selection are outside of this topic.
If you came with (or agreed to meet) an individual at a gathering, and know that you may change your attentions to another person, be frank about it up front. Some guys are not necessarily as sensitive as others to subtle signals: so communicate explicitly and promptly. Bring your clue-stick and use it early. Inform your initial partner that you are interested in him; but may end up "playing the field" before you actually arrive, if possible. You don't need to use the word "probation" or "conditional" — but leading a partner on to think that they (will automatically) have a deeper relationship with you than actually may exist can be explosive if the individual has a very resentful personality. And even if not, the sudden unanticipated shift in attentions is likely to devastate his feelings.
Man 3:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking and being pleasant to more than one guy at a time; in fact, there's something wrong with anyone who says there is something wrong with it. Where the line is between being pleasant and flirting is going to depend on the situation, but if you're going beyond being pleasant, it depends on how the people involved feel about it. There's certainly something wrong with deliberately making them feel uncomfortable. There's probably something wrong with continuing if you know you're making them uncomfortable, even if you don't mean to. As for going out that evening with an intent to flirt with one guy, and finding another that seems more attractive, there's nothing wrong with that.
Man 4:
You asked for the guy perspective?
I know I can't speak for *all* men, and I'm not sure I can even manage speaking for the majority or some "average Joe".
I guess I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as you're using "flirting" to mean, well, FLIRTING (rather than as a euphemism for something more rawly-physical). They might not *like* it, but that's not really the question at hand.
If the querent is actually attempting to ask "Am I acting like a slut", I'd have to say it depends entirely on how SHE feels about the situation, and others don't get a vote.
I have a counter-question: would the morality or good/bad taste be affected if the question were asked by a man who was wondering about flirting with two women at once (especially when they're friends with each other)? Morality-wise, I would think "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" applies (though clearly the *effectiveness* of some flirting styles will vary wildly depending on the genders of the flirter/flirtee).
So, that's it. Thank you to the guys who responded! If you'd like to ask a question, just post it as a reply to the most recent column. All replies are screened. You may post anonymously if you wish.
Also, if you enjoy reading Dear Lizzy, please promote it in your own journals! The more people read, the more likely I am to have questions to answer each week. Thanks for reading!
Dear Lizzy,
Last year, I watched two people who I thought cared for me latch onto each other with forces akin to an Asimov novel. They did this for mutual support as they each underwent a great deal of stress preparing for important events in their lives. I was involved in both events in some minor way, but in the process, I felt completely removed from either social circle. It also didn't help that work has kept me isolated with long and late hours.
Now, their activities have centered around each other, and I no longer feel as though I know them. I have my own, very stressful event fast approaching at the end of the summer, and I am in a bind. I feel that they find me unnecessary and excluded me from even the most mundane activity. For example: they mentioned at a large gathering the interest to get ice cream. I asked if I could go with them and I was told "Oh, this is something we do," as though I was no longer a member of the popular clique.
Should I continue to be friends, or should I no longer seek their advice and company?
-Abandoned
Dear Abandoned,
It was slightly unclear - you said that the suggestion of an ice cream trip was made at a large gathering, but the "we" might have been just the two who have latched onto each other. If it was the latter - sorry, but there are some things that become rituals between couples or small groups, and it's something that you should accept. If it was a general invitation to everyone but you, that was extremely rude of them. They're not worth being friends with if they deliberately excluded just you. Lose them and look around for interesting people.
It's possible that you've simply grown apart and that they don't feel close to you anymore. It's also possible that they've got their heads stuck so far up their own asses that they don't think about anyone but themselves. You won't know until you've talked to them in a way that is:
- One-on-one
- Non-accusatory
- Calm
Invite each one - separately - to some activity - a walk, ice cream, something where either one of you can break off the talk whenever you want and leave independently of each other. Talk to the one with whom you are most interested in maintaining a friendship first.
Make sure that both of you are fed and well-rested beforehand. Tell them how you feel in "I" terms. Do NOT say "You did X to me", say, "I felt hurt when you said I wasn't welcome to get ice cream with you. I've been feeling unwelcome, and that makes me uncomfortable. I would prefer to know if I am imposing myself on you. I have really enjoyed your company in the past, but I don't want to spend my time feeling like an outsider." See what each of your friends has to say. Do your best not to use guilt as a weapon - or at all. It is self-defeating.
The text above is somewhat inflammatory; it will only work if you say it calmly. Alternately, figure out your own words. However, remember: they have a right to do whatever they want to with their lives, just as you have a right to live your life as you see fit. If they're treating you like shit, go find better friends. Be a good friend - and I mean a friend, not a door mat - and you will find good friends. Realize too that you may be emotionally "leaning" on them more heavily than you realize. I used to do this as a manner of habit, and didn't realize it until years later.
Whatever happens, get involved in more activities that interest you, and be interested in the people you meet through those activities. It seems like you might see these two people as two of your few social outlets. Expand your base. It will make you happier, and it will put less pressure on those two particular people to be there for you. There are really good people all around you, waiting to be interested in you - if you're interested in them. Make sure to listen to what other people have to say - encourage them to talk rather than doing all the talking yourself, and you'll be amazed at the life that people will share with you.
Two weeks ago, I had a letter from Evil Tease, asking about the propriety of flirting with two guys at once, when she didn't know whether she was actually interested in either. I asked the men for feedback. Below are the responses.
Man 1:
Flirting with two people, or even going out on dates with different people wouldn't bother me. You have to be able to meet people, find out if they are compatible with you. Flirting is an Olympic Sport to some, and can be perfectly harmless. Flirting is about getting to know someone, and being unsure of your intentions. However, crossing personal boundary space (ie... kissing both) might be a bit unfair. But, if you have to know who the better kisser is, well, scientific discovery is hard work... However, if your to the point of horizontal mamba, being honest with both that your "seeing others" would be appreciated. That way, they can make an informed choice (in my case, probably no - I tend to date one person at a time, and look for that in the people I date - but that's my personal choice). Remember, relationships are a two way street.
Man 2:
There you go, breaking guy's hearts, Tease!
But, yes, a key to keeping from hurting a member of the other sex is to convey exactly what your feelings are, what your wants are, and what you are looking for. Is it just to be social and have a good time? Is it to size up the peacocks at this particular lek? Is it to learn more about a potential partner? Is the goal a private assignation — if the partner is suitable?
Communicate, communicate, communicate. There are some cues that should be generally understandable: If you came to a gathering alone (without a partner), you should let folks know that, and they should know that you are a "free agent." You can state that you would like to meet everyone during the gathering. In such a case, you are quite justified in deciding amongst potential partners for the evening. Everyone should understand that you are, effectively, setting up a win/lose (or lose/lose) competition for a potential partner. Some may choose to throw their hat in the ring, some may not, but the subtleties of human sexual selection are outside of this topic.
If you came with (or agreed to meet) an individual at a gathering, and know that you may change your attentions to another person, be frank about it up front. Some guys are not necessarily as sensitive as others to subtle signals: so communicate explicitly and promptly. Bring your clue-stick and use it early. Inform your initial partner that you are interested in him; but may end up "playing the field" before you actually arrive, if possible. You don't need to use the word "probation" or "conditional" — but leading a partner on to think that they (will automatically) have a deeper relationship with you than actually may exist can be explosive if the individual has a very resentful personality. And even if not, the sudden unanticipated shift in attentions is likely to devastate his feelings.
Man 3:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with talking and being pleasant to more than one guy at a time; in fact, there's something wrong with anyone who says there is something wrong with it. Where the line is between being pleasant and flirting is going to depend on the situation, but if you're going beyond being pleasant, it depends on how the people involved feel about it. There's certainly something wrong with deliberately making them feel uncomfortable. There's probably something wrong with continuing if you know you're making them uncomfortable, even if you don't mean to. As for going out that evening with an intent to flirt with one guy, and finding another that seems more attractive, there's nothing wrong with that.
Man 4:
You asked for the guy perspective?
I know I can't speak for *all* men, and I'm not sure I can even manage speaking for the majority or some "average Joe".
I guess I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as you're using "flirting" to mean, well, FLIRTING (rather than as a euphemism for something more rawly-physical). They might not *like* it, but that's not really the question at hand.
If the querent is actually attempting to ask "Am I acting like a slut", I'd have to say it depends entirely on how SHE feels about the situation, and others don't get a vote.
I have a counter-question: would the morality or good/bad taste be affected if the question were asked by a man who was wondering about flirting with two women at once (especially when they're friends with each other)? Morality-wise, I would think "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" applies (though clearly the *effectiveness* of some flirting styles will vary wildly depending on the genders of the flirter/flirtee).
So, that's it. Thank you to the guys who responded! If you'd like to ask a question, just post it as a reply to the most recent column. All replies are screened. You may post anonymously if you wish.
Also, if you enjoy reading Dear Lizzy, please promote it in your own journals! The more people read, the more likely I am to have questions to answer each week. Thanks for reading!
